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The 8Bit Podcast – Episode 021


Stop treating digital marketing as your little brother.

The 8Bit Podcast – Episode 021 is back after taking a 6-month break. Phil and Jeff discuss why they took a break, share some of the work Creative Arcade produced and introduce Kate Rod. Kate started working at the agency in June and is responsible for copywriting and content writing on behalf of Creative Arcade and its clients. 

The guys tackle the idea that the term “digital” or “digital marketing” should just be called marketing. Simply for the fact that much of the way we buy as consumers today and the way we market is different than 20 years ago. To stop treating it like your little brother who your mom wants you to bring with everywhere you go when younger. To ultimately stop treating digital marketing as an afterthought and top-of-mind.

We also discuss the newest feature of the 8Bit Podcast, #AskCA. Your chance to ask a marketing question and for CA to answer it on the show. In this episode, they are asked about content marketing and its effectiveness. Also, how to sell the idea to company leadership.

So, take a break and watch/listen.


Jeff: I clammed up

Phil: Oh I thought it was a video glitch

Jeff: No oh yeah….its buffering

Phil: Yeah

Jeff: A gah gah gah gah gah gah gah gah

Phil: Your wi-fi here sucks

Jeff: A gah a gah gah gah gah guess we were a

Phil: Are we rolling?

Jeff: I twitched too while we were

Phil: Ya right

Jeff: A gah gha gha gha gha

Phil: O yeah we don’t edit

Jeff: Ya we don’t edit

Jeff: I like all this stuff we do at the beginning

Jeff: Well welcome back

Phil: Thank you

Jeff: Where the hell have you been?

Phil: I was out…

Jeff: I told you be here at

Phil: I was out buying a camera and

Jeff: So this is podcast,  uh 8Bit podcast, 2…Icant believe we did 20 over the past 20 years

Jeff: But we did

Jeff: Uh seriously we took a little hiatus after when was that? that was in February right?

yeah that was back February sometime

Jeff: When was that yea because we had Stephen came on February 1st and he was on the last podcast so uh

Jeff: Yeah

Phil: Yeah

Jeff: So why did we take a little break?

Phil: Well, think we felt our quality of our podcast needed to be bumped up

Jeff: Yeah thats

Jeff: Well, let yes I think what what I would say about that is uh Ithink inthe past it was always just a lets see what we can do with this and see if we can do it as part of the Power of Play which we have talked about before um and we did it and it was fun and it is still fun and I think we just realized that were going to keep going but if we keep it going we uh probably see how we can improve it. so uh and yeah…and the summer

Phil: Yeah

Jeff: Summer happened

Phil:  Summery stuff

Jeff: But we got some cool new toys I think our audio will be a lot better than its been in the past uh we tried a couple different things and uh um

Phil: Put your phone away!

Jeff: Sorry its my brother he’s uh just sending me something on facebook

Phil: Hi brad

Jeff: Hi brad

Jeff: Um we got some new video equipment well we always been doing some drone work but we now have the Mavic Air which were not obviously shooting with it right now

its just hovering right there

Jeff: Which would be so..

Phil: Blades are super quiet

Jeff: That would be pretty cool jan do you think we could do that? or is that…can we put the drone here?

Jan: Sure, why not?

Phil: He’s just humoring you

Jeff: I know uh we have a new Sony camera which before we tried to use some other cameras we had laying around and it was fine but uh were hoping this will be the start of something better and just all around quality will be better.

Phil: Uh huh we haven’t played around alot with that camera but its pretty sweet

Jeff: pretty sweet I just wish I knew how to use it but thats ok I cant know everything

or much

Jeff: So yeah so thats why we took a little break and uh we have also been up to we’ve been doing all kinds of other things too which has been fun this year. I know but it seems like yesterday but when was that?It was probably back in July? June? When did we speak to the chamber?

Jeff: Yeah thats uh probably about right.

Jeff: yeah so we still did a little program

Phil: August?

Jeff: Or was it August?

Phil: It was August.

Jeff: So it was August ok well that was couple months ago. So I guess we did some other things since then but we talked about the Power of Design and had a nice group of people there um for that which was cool. We talked about in that just a variety of marketing formats and just the power of design in some of those pieces everything from straight up advertising what why you laughing?

Phil: I just remember when you pulled the power cord out of the wall right in the middle of the presentation.

Jeff: Yeah that was embarrassing. I’m standing there by the wall and  with my foot up and I just kicked the kicked all of the power right out of the projector  and the

Phil: That was alright though, it allowed us to have a middle of the presentation Q&A and we reset everything

Phil: Yeah it was really fun um what else did we do? well we did some amazing work um

We had a golf outing with the

Jeff: The golf outing!

Phil: Yeah we shared some of that on social media

Jeff: But um yeah that was fun oh I forgot all about the golf outing yeah um what else did we do?

Phil: We were busy working

Jeff: So we thats right I know one of a fun one we were working o probably since late last spring was whats now the Northland Newborn Foundation.

Phil: Yes

Jeff: Uh we were approached by a group who used to work with the March of Dimes who now which the March of Dimes is a national actually international non profit uh around the health of babies and newborns and uh preventing premature births and birth defects. um and I uh you know we have been close with our own personal stories with the march of dimes but they decided to  move on our of town.

Phil: I think they did that alot with relatively smaller markets.

Jeff: Yeah so um which you know I think I get it but its also like well then now what? you know so a group of people decided to create their own non profit and along the same mission so they are now the Northland Newborn Foundation.

Phil: Yeah so we created the identity for them. we helped name a couple things  a couple different events couple different logos for those events. some shirts and just a some identity stuff so. are we going to show that like right here?

Jeff: We re going to do that right over our face. Actually while you talk we’ll put it right over my face like on the news?

Phil: Oh yeah yeah yeah

Phil: Like to the side of them or something? Well just put it over here over my face

Phil: And then you have to do one of these. Come out from behind it?

Jeff: I’ll come climbing above it?

Phil: Yeah and then we’ll slide it?

Jeff: Yeah yeah yeah like a slide it like an iPhone.

Phil: Stephen you’ve got some stuff to do on this video.

Jeff: Yeah hope you like animation? um what else did we do?

Phil: See this piece?

Jeff: Cool

Jeff: Uh another fun thing that was um kinda uh we did work with Memorial Medical Center out of Ashland and Hayward Wisconsin. Some television work video work.

TV AD – Here at Memorial Medical Center we really care about treating the patient as a whole. Instead of looking at the patient as a hip or as a knee, we look at how their hip or knee affects their life. Im Joe Signorelli, Orthopedic Surgeon and Ive been hip and knee replacement surgery for seven years. It’s really important for a patient to be comfortable or while they are receiving their care so if we can provide high quality care at an affordable cost in their home community I think it’s advantageous for the patient. I think they really appreciate that.

Jeff: That was cool.

Phil: Yeah that was fun we Stephen and I went there and shot some video and took some photos and um we had two new surgeons in the area so

Jeff: Ive seen it everywhere

Phil: I see it everywhere too

Jeff: Still I mean

Phil: I see it all over. Kind of in conjunction not in conjunction with but at the same time we were also working on a big campaign for Fairview Medical Center in Hibbing. So lot of healthcare stuff this summer but thats thats  still going on still doing lots of stuff for them but we did video and print starting some digital soon for them

Jeff: Whole inbound plan, yep

Phil: Lot a of bios for their providers we shot those

Jeff: Yeah alot of content

Phil: Lot of content

Jeff: Yeah beyond just the uh main piece there so. huh thats cool. then the other thing. I think the big thing that is Kate. Kate Rod Kate where are you? Kate? are you in the studio audience?

Kate: Well surprise. Im hired.

Jeff: Hi, Kate Rod

Phil: Hi

Jeff: How are you?

Kate: Good? Hows it going?

Jeff: Good. So we’ve been talking about all of the fun stuff we’ve been doing this summer. things we have missed since  we last did this which was well over 6 months ago. In fact it was when we had hired Stephen who’s manning the camera today in case you’re wondering where he is, um but uh we hired Kate Rod. So uh tell me us a little more about yourself.

Kate: Im Kate Rod. um

Jeff and Phil: Check

Kate: That was good. Um Im from Wisconsin.

Phil: You can look at the camera.

Kate: The land of cheese. um Im hired on as Creative Arcade’s writer so Im responsible for the internal and external copy for our clients and our own work. Um Ido a lot of blog writing. Ido lot of like long form stuff. Ido a lot of copy for ads and taglines and Im enjoying it so far. I was hired when did I start?

Phil: June sometime.

Kate: June?Yeah I’ve been here since June so. It’s been an adventure.

Phil: What was the biggest shock or working full time as a writer?

Kate: Biggest shock. Thats a good question.

Phil: Thank you.

Kate: Huh. I think I wasn’t fully prepared for…no I was prepared for the deep diving into everything and getting the hang of everything, but and you guys warned me a head of time  you said just so you know you’re going to be doing a lot of writing and you’re going to be hitting the ground running. I definitely did I think that was still a shock for me though which is going to be with any job. you just have to get used to it get used  to the hang of things so yeah.

Jeff: The pace

Kate: The pace yeah but now that Ive been working here for a little bit longer I feel like I have a pretty good groove. so feel good.

Jeff: Nice. I do too. I think its just being honest with yourself with how much i can do or

Kate: Right your limitations

Jeff: Limitations

Kate: Theres only so many hours in a day. you cant write as much as you want. writing takes al ot of brain power so yeah

Phil:Uh one of the other things we liked about you when we interviewed you is your organizational skills.

Kate: Oh yeah so Im a recent graduate from the College of St Scholastica and I have a degree in organizational behavior and communication. So they hired me because they needed someone to help them organize things around here.

Jeff: Thats not why we hired you.

Phil: no it was a bonus.

Kate: It was bonus, yes so Im a very organized person in general and I felt like my major really helped me with that so that really helped when I first started here and I think that was one of them most exciting things for me was I was able to jump in and you guys were like go with our task stuff, just do it fix it

Phil: Make it better

Kate: And and I was like OK let’s do it. So kind of just jumping into that was probably the most exciting thing for me.

Phil: Yeah cuz we have a lot of projects that come in and out and alot of different tasks that are involved lots of deadlines so we’ve always done it but theres a lot fo work involved with that so you’ve been helping with that quite a bit which is awesome.

Kate: Yep it’s been fun.

Jeff: Yeah and we’ll now you’re doing a lot of content writing for clients as we do more inbound marketing and I know thats a whole other animal if you will.

Kate: Yes so I actually have some experience Im doing alot more healthcare stuff so I have a lot of experience in that field cuz I worked for health partners for a while and now I’m doing stuff with other clients so Iike that I get to go back to my roots Thats one of the things I really appreciate and I really love interviewing people. I don’t like being interviewed but I really love interviewing people so for me thats one of the cool aspects about this job is I get to work with so many different fields and not even just healthcare I get to work with just hospitality doing stuff with higher education and so its obviously alot of different things and I’m a life long learner so I think thats one of the cool aspects.

Phil: Nice

Jeff: We’ll get ready to learn theres alot left to go. not just for you but for us too so.

Phil: You’ve been working alot on personas which is awesome for our clients and their clientele.

Kate: Right right so for those who don’t know a persona is a fictional representation of who your target  market or who your target audience base is so my goal is to kinda research what people are doing in certain areas and then tying it all back together so we can tie it back to our marketing strategy for ourselves and our clients.

Phil: Good answer.

Jeff: Rapid fire. rapid fire rapid fire.

Phil: Oh rapid fire

Jeff: I know this is our new thing I don’t know how to do it i just came up.

Phil: Ok Kate come over this way a little bit Im thinking he wants you to subtly tell you

Kate: Oh I’m drifting I’m sorry

Phil: And ya gotta hide the microphone thats part of the magic

Kate: Ok ok

Jeff: Favorite cheese. Go

Kate: Gouda

Phil: Uh favorite football team

Kate: Packers

Phil: ohhh We will edit that out later

Phil: Favorite movie

Kate: Great Outdoors

Phil: Favorite color

Kate: Blue

Jeff: Semi rapid fire. Take a breath.

Jeff: Ok uh what kind of car do you drive?

Kate: Ford ranger

Jeff: How do you like that?

Kate: Not so much.

Phil: What is your favorite animal to hunt?

Kate: Deer

Phil: Oh ok

Jeff: Whats your favorite animal to trap?

Kate: Fox

Jeff: Ooooohh I only say that because Kate’s pretty cool in that she does all of this cool outside stuff which totally blew my mind and I didn’t know anything about that until she started working here.

Phil: Yeah

Jeff: Which still blows my mind every day really you’re out doing that?thats cool.

Kate: Thats why I usually lead with Im from Wisconsin so people aren’t as surprised when I say oh I hunt I fish I trap I do all these things.

Phil: Favorite two concerts you’ve gone to in the last two weeks?

Kate: Kenny G because I have the references of an 80 year old woman and um Ed Sheeran because I also like Ed Sheeran like everyone else on the planet so yeah.

Jeff: Whos Ed Sheeran?

Kate: Sorry, I work with grandparents, so

Jeff: Ok we’ll work on rapid fire and we’ll have better questions.

Kate: Yeah you should come up with a list of questions for me

Jeff: Yeah yeah but it felt really rapid though.

Phil: Yeah it did.

Jeff: So thats cool

Phil: The graphics later pew pew

Jeff: Well cool I’m glad your’e here

Kate: Yes IM glad to be here

Phil: Anything else you want to add?

Kate: Nope excited to be here. excited to uh do more podcasts hopefully in the future excited to hopefully interview you guys because its one of the things Id like to do is ask more questions to just help me understand more about marketing and everything you guys do around here too.

Jeff: I think its a good segway too I think we alluded to this but the fact that we were starting this back up again in that we would maybe like to have some outside guest. we even talked to someone yesterday in the marketing community here who’s been in the marketing community a long time and a very high profile place I’m not going tp give it away yet but he agreed that he would come on he said if we gave him beer so maybe well have a little beer while we have uh have him on sometime. but yeah I think we would like to have him on and get a few other vantage points and other industries and thoughts about it and there’s alot of collective experiences in this town

Kate: Man I should have demanded beer before I came on

Phil: Yeah you already work here

Kate: True true, so

Phil: When you interview people, are you more prepared than our rapid fire section?

Kate: Yes

Phil: Whew

Kate: A little more prepared

Phil: Cool

Kate: Alright

Jeff: Is this the point where she gets up?

Kate: Is this the point where I leave?

Phil: I think so I just don’t know how to tell here that

Jeff: So like good bye Kate. bye

Jeff: Good bye. Thanks for co thanks for playing

Phil: Ok bye

Kate: See ya later

Kate: Later. Good luck with your podcast

Jeff: Thank you

Kate: I’ll be writing if you need me

Jeff: Ok

Jeff: Cool. well that was good.

Phil: Yeah

Jeff: Yeah Kate’s awesome or uh whats cool is that were you know we’ve been growing the past two years and nice to put more tools in the toolbox if you will you know so

Jeff: So one thing this year as we’ve talked to a few

Jeff: Sorry were laughing Jan is writing on the board over there uh thats cool

I like that

that way we know uh

Jeff: The one thing we run into still its its its something that I shouldn’t be surprised or not surprised is this idea and this is where I don’t know if we  are wrong at times but maybe were right and maybe I don’t know I guess there isn’t a good answer to this um but at times it feels like we still consider digital as this kind of like outside thing. and almost Ive been talking in the last two days  about it being kinda like the little brother you know its like I just remember when I was younger and growing up you know make sure you take your little brother with and its like oh my god and its like ok come on. of course he’s part of the group but you’re kinda like like not because you really want to but because you have to.

Phil: It’s the second Brad shout out. I love this.

Jeff: Oh yeah its oh yeah sorry Brad um. He’s probably gonna be mad now.

Right. You had to bring me along? no but you know its that kind of mentality of of of uh still at times when we find uh organizations or or potential clients and were not again I want to be clear that were not trying to be negative on those things because I think there is a time and a place for traditional means and the way we’ve been talking about it um is starting to realign our thinking of of what comes first um in some of those tactics and based on and as we do more and more of like what Kate was alluding to before in our content stuff is um developing personas and really understanding our target audience which you’ve probably heard before a million times right so um but  just realigning that thinking that maybe we should think of “digital” which can mean alot of different things as kind of a baseline and how do you layer in other things on top? um I don’t know do you find that to be like..

Phil: I think over the years you and I have been frustrated with I don’t know 10 years ago probably that it was digital is or digital and web or whatever we were doing at the time was always an afterthought and we here at Creative Arcade feel like we flip that alot. you know with alot of our clients were trying to with digital and layer in all of those traditional mediums and I think Im shocked that that its still that way for some clients. the mentality of them is still that old way of thinking. But you’re right, I don’t know if I should be shocked but

Jeff: Right and again and i think that what we also don’t want to come off negative towards those things.

Phil: Absolutely

Jeff: We still do a ton of television. we still do a ton of print ads. we still do a ton of of outdoor and those types of things. I think there is a place for those things. i guess where I like I said goin g into 2018 almost 19 I still find it that well talk to some other again like new organization we’ve talked to before and they say “well were doing print ads and theres ” of course everyone’s doing social media which okay having a facebook page  isn’t just doesn’t mean you’re doing social media it just means you’re on the social media platform, right but how you interact or how you utilize that is is another thing and thats I guess is a start but I always feel even as were going into 2019 and looking at maybe a few of our clients asking about you know what should we do about 2019 and planning for budgets and stuff like that and you know sitting down and looking at what is the mix they have going? and I think the way we’ve the last couple years have been trying to not only looking at paid but how do we create that base we are talking about and thats where we’ve been talking alot about inbound marketing and how we’ve decided to to do more of those things where we can and sometimes were going from the traditional side and were implementing inbound and trying to flip it. I think theres also times where we have the opportunity right up front to again set that kind of baseline and how do we need to layer on top?

Phil: I think when we have new clients that are maybe a new business or have never really done marketing its a lot easier for us because were able to lay out all the different aspects of marketing that we do you know the digital and a lot fo the traditional things and we just put them together as marketing and show them how they work together. I think its a little better and harder for people to grasp that maybe have been doing marketing for a long time but they’ve been doing traditional means then we need to get them up to speed a bit and it takes a bit more in how those layer together but I think, don’t you think, its a little bit easier with somebody brand new and we show them all how they al l work together.

Jeff: Yeah thats funny as you were just talking about that how we’ve had these pillars 4 pillars to our service lines and we’ve  even broken out marketing advertising as a separate pillar and would really be television and all that stuff. I was just thinking that we need to rethink that ourselves and say cuz your’e right the way we’ve been trying to portray that too is that it is marketing. you should have it as a big piece of the pie and not just the uh oh yeah but maybe the  digital is a little bit of cool whip on top or something like a little dollop. you know is actually making that part of the pie so uh yeah I guess maybe were enabling that at times maybe from i don’t know but

Phil: Well sometimes it feels like uh people who haven’t done some digital stuff feel like maybe their adding on a lot of cost?  where I think we’ve done a really good job of helping them plan and maybe show hey we still want you todo this other type of marketing but maybe we shift some dollars and maybe even it out a little bit more. so you might not spend more money you might spend less money. in certain cases um or you might spend a little more but I dont think its as much of a shock when we lay it out that way.

Jeff: Yeah i also find we find it hard to just the whole teaching old dogs new tricks kind of thing? you know cuz sometimes we’ve had the “yeah we do a ton of direct mail”. okay and again, direct mail had its place and maybe still has a place depending on what you do but how do you measure that? you know and how do you and thats again when you think about having that baseline uh to not only hit alot of eyeballs? but to be able to measure that.  and at least know that your baseline is doing something here and how you layer on top is maybe the gravy on top? maybe? you know? because it is hard to measure some of those other things. you know? I think there is a case for certain things based on industry but again if you start there and layer on top thats where the sweet spot where you can keep that.

Phil: We’ve even discussed ways of maybe things like direct mail how we could convert them from the direct mail piece into the digital world with so if its a landing page or something along those lines you can help measure? um thats one thing we’ve talked about 

Jeff: Right at times we’ve had to get creative but then again you’re still pushing them online, you’re still pushing them where their starting their searches at times for whatever it is their looking for and especially with these guys now um you know having this at your fingertips um changes everything and has always changed the game.

Phil: Did we just miss HQ?

Jeff: We did. Wait what does it say?  What is it today? Anything special?

Phil: I think its pretty riveting podcast today

Jeff: No we wont look at HQ now. HQ is a trivia game we play its fun kinda dumb but

anyways I don’t want to go on forever and ever about this but I just find it again I think lately we’ve hit a couple times since the last time podcasted just kinda surprising that their’s still this kind of like um I don’t know the word for it just like this not making it a priority I guess would be the way to describe it or say it and the way they look at it. and uh why its not and why other things aren’t moving the needle for em so but

Phil: The good news is its gotten better.

Jeff: Gotten better

Phil: I think it’s a you know from 2-3 years ago I think its even alot better. People understand it a little bit better and uh are willing to embrace it more?

Jeff: Yep so um so one of the other things that we want to do from now on is and uh I had a little uh you kind of startled me the other  one facebook the other morning i was looking out the window.

Jeff: Oh hey. Jeff from creative Arcade. Beautiful Monday morning here in Duluth Minnesota. um I just want to take a couple minutes just to say we’re going to be starting the 8Bit podcast back up. We took a little break to kinda reevaluate where we are at and where we are going with i. um this summer is when we did that and now were ready to get going again so were really excited about that and were going to have some guest speakers uh some guests if you will and some other great topics we want to hit. Um a little bit better production value uh as we kinda reevaluated and one of the things were looking at with you is some questions you might have. Just about design, marketing things we do here at Creative Arcade and uh if so if you use hashtag ASkCA across Twitter, instagram, LinkedIn etc uh wed like to just aggregate those questions over time  and use them in future shows. so if you have something thats been burning in your brain for a long time and you want to ask, ask away. happy to answer and hope you’re having a nice week talk to you soon.

Phil: Ok so we started the hashtag AskCA. What does Ask CA stand for?

Jeff: Cool Authorities?

Phil: Right

Jeff: Candy Apples?

Phil: So we started the hashtag AskCA as in Ask Creative Arcade so we’re going  to be doing these podcasts all the time so you might as well ask us questions you want to hear.

Jeff: Yeah so yeah I think what we were talking about is just a way to help tag your specific questions on twitter, instagram, facebook, heck you can email us you want to phone call us? you can look it up on our website and call us? Stephen will totally answer.

Phil: And try to direct your call.

Jeff: Um but um but no we just thought cuz every once in a while even our friends and family at times they ask us questions about things we are doing and whatever and uh everyone touches marketing at some point um you know is impacted by it so natural to have some questions and things about what we do.

Phil: Help us help you.

Jeff: Help us help you yeah so um so anyways I think we had one question yeah

Phil: Oh Iike this

Jeff: Whats it say on there?

Phil: Wish I had the name and location of this person I could say that and

Jeff: Well call it john from Duluth

Phil: John from Duluth asks, “Is content marketing effective and how do we sell it to our leadership?”

Jeff: Right well yeah content marketing? extremely effective um here we have been touching on inbound marketing and we just talked about it in the last segment a bit um which is really content marketing their kinda interchangeable . some people call it content marketing or inbound and why we call it inbound is that the philosophy and the methodologies are a little more defined? than just strictly just putting out content there s a rhyme and a reason. but regardless if you kinda call it the same thing yeah theres a huge advantage in putting it out there and again most people start whether its on your phone now or obviously on your laptop you’re going to go to google when you have question or your looking for something specific or thats where you start regardless if you go buy it at target again you might as well go research online but first go is this thing rated right or go to Amazon and buy it but they will always look at the reviews and when you think about it the way we buy um is so different than the way we did 20 years ago and um is content marketing effective? extremely effective and you know even a service line industry you know you provide a service that solves problems for people and people have specific questions or challenges they are looking at its really your duty to solve those and so by blogging using email using social media telling people about you know the problems we help solve and putting that all out there is extremely helpful. all that content out there and all the different ways of being found is being found by Google and its bringing them back to your website and its giving traffic and starts that lead generation process. and I know theres a little deeper dive there but yah is it effective? Extremely effective

Phil: And I would add to that proper content marketing is effective.

Jeff: Yeah

Phil: Because I think when Kate was talking about personas and knowing your target market and audience and everything um you need to know who your’e talking to first and what they want to know and what you think they want to know. if you’re just throwing out content to throw out content it might still work for you but I think knowing the audience and knowing their pain points and some of the things like that.

Jeff: Thats a good point.

Phil: Would make it even more effective.

Jeff: Uh yes its a good point. And how do you sell it to leadership? its the same reasons we just talked about. um I think a lot of times you know leadership definitely the leaders of your company or organization um I would assume they are looking at ways to always improve upon where they’ve been before and obviously it costs dollars so you know um and there is a cost to it its not a freebie thing its a lot of work. wE tell people that all the time when we do that kind of stuff that get ready to work because but once you create that content its something you can go back to and you can chop it up and use it in a variety fo ways and so selling it to leadership yeah I think as long as we can define goals we can define the kind of customers you’re looking for. If we can define what a lead means to them I think we can, and because its all measurable that the dollars you’re putting in to that we can show them if its not working we can change on the fly and and get it to work. And its nice to know that if we are shelling out X amount of dollars we can hopefully get something in turn for that and I can see that. you know and thats why things like Direct mail again not to harp on those things but its hard. its hard to show that and yet people still do it so much all the time and then wonder why were pending X amount of dollars and not getting anything for it and its kind of open you know. so.

Phil: Well I think every agency has always struggled I shouldn’t say everyone but uh agencies have struggled in the past showing return on investment on traditional advertising. How many people are seeing this? How many people are acting on it? and I think with content marketing it’s a lot easier to show those connections and show the analytics and add in how they become customers.

Jeff: The other thing to think about too about budget is you can totally um you know make it fit. even with a small budget or plan for something you’ve got an extra 5 grand laying around or something that you’re…no Im just saying.

Phil: Im just imagining 5 grand laying around

Jeff: Like a whole know you can tailor that i mean its not ideal and then do some testing and see what works so that maybe next time as you go forward you can plan for a little bit better and allocate some more dollars to it because you know you can probably get this kind of result if not better. so I think thats totally uh totally a way to sell it is the measurement side you know and uh make it work for them so.

Jeff: it was a good question and again if you have questions like that or things that have been burning in your brain as i said the other day uh you can definitely let us know that through #AskCA.

Phil: I’ll put it here on my hand.

Jeff: right we will put a little graphic there?

Phil: yep

Jeff: so yeah but alright we probably took up  and talked more than enough for episode 21 but I’m glad were back on the horse.

Jeff: and uh yeah so when we doing the next one?

Phil: Two weeks?

Jeff: Two weeks

Phil: Two weeks is what we said?

Jeff: Something like that. I was just testing you. so well take care and we will talk soon

Phil: Buh bye